KC (![[info]](http://p-stat.livejournal.com/img/userinfo.gif){kind=small} kc_anathema) wrote,@ 2008-02-09 23:03:00 |
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Over in scans_daily, they had this posted, a few editorials by Alan Moore from 1983 about the state of women in comics. And while I don't want to spend much time talking about it, there were a few snippets from it that I couldn't help but want to talk to.
...five thousand times? Really truly? 'Cause that doesn't sound bad at all to me. Maybe we could have some dude-in-distress plotlines on the crime dramas, hot dudes in torn clothes or low jeans hawking computers. I could even see a commercial of a mostly naked dude sprawled up against the kitchen cabinet, the implicit message not being "buy these appliances and naked men will want you" like in the car commercials, but rather "buy these appliances and naked men will not only want you, they will cook and do your dishes."
Hot naked dude...barefoot...washing clothes in a sudsy bucket with a washboard. Hell, that'd get me into bed, and then everyone's happy. So yes, five thousand times. At least.
I guess those chibi stories with Wonder Tot and Aqualad (I think it was Aqualad) don't count? Besides, she didn't need the eventual Wondergirl sidekick patterned after her. She had the Holiday girls (and I must totally thank Moggy for my knowledge of these glorious stories), and the Holiday girls not only got to save the day often, but they were led by Etta Candy, an overweight girl who eats bonbons while taking out the bad guys. And there was Steve, cool, non-threatened by the Amazon, fighting by her side when he can. I'll be honest, even if Lois Lane hadn't been shallow caricature but rather a fully fleshed out character, I'd still rather read about the Amazon, the soldier, and Etta. Does Lois Lane have girl hunts, institutionalized bondage and kangaroos that jump to the moon?
Adolescent boys are the overwhelming primary market. It makes sense to pander to them. And it ain't like the guys are any less objectified. Now granted, it's nice that finally the audience has woken up to the fact that all of Michael Turner's girls are not only the same face/body over and over, but that a lot of girls in comics have the same body. But I don't think that's just a symptom of sexism. I think it's just a symptom of really bad artwork, and that can reach its ugly hand across all genders, creeds and colors. I honestly think that those adolescent boys would still read comics if the girls were as differentiated as the guys in terms of body/face (ie. we can tell Nightwing and Gambit apart usually), but certain artists have proved to sell comics, so the companies are going to stay within an unimaginative environment and do what they know works somewhat. That's not wholly sexism, that's mostly a perpetually stagnant business model. And it's the reason Rob Liefeld keeps getting work.
And hell, I wouldn't mind it if everything Nightwing or Gambit did looked like one of those ads that objectified the male models. Gambit's in bed on a snowy night with a lamp, a book and hot chocolate? Then no, he's not under the covers, he's lounging on a thick comforter wearing only boxers (or with a strategically placed scrap of blanket), book in one hand, the light and shadows playing over him as he lies in a pose reminiscent of a bdsm shoot. And yes, the window's curtains are open wide so that all may know his glory.
O_o Now what is Moore's harsh with bondage? Even in fics where there's no sex, I like the power play dynamics inherent in bondage and damsel/dude-in-distress. Just 'cause he doesn't like it doesn't mean it sucks. And I still don't buy the argument that bondage damages anyone's tender, vulnerable brains.
I dunno that a fraction of the hentai market is representative of manga. Which is kinda ironic that he cites them, 'cause I've found lots of fun female characters in manga. In fact, the manga is often better than the videogames coming from Japan, where the useless female is a cliche. (Dammit, Kairi, Riku shouldn't have to pull your keyblade outta his ass for you to fight!)
Then again, he wrote this in 1983, so it's unfair to expect him to know about all the stuff that's been translated and published over here now.
If anyone takes those fantasies for reality, they got a lot more problems than reading Conan the Barbarian comics. Besides, some of us like seeing barbarians reducing bad guys to dogfood with their swords. And seeing pretty people in chains. Pretty people in chains is awesome, I don't care what anyone says. Not nearly enough chains in comics in my opinion. Pretty boys in chains is just a huge plus.
But at least he's open to differing opinions. More than you can say about lotsa other people.
...five thousand times? Really truly? 'Cause that doesn't sound bad at all to me. Maybe we could have some dude-in-distress plotlines on the crime dramas, hot dudes in torn clothes or low jeans hawking computers. I could even see a commercial of a mostly naked dude sprawled up against the kitchen cabinet, the implicit message not being "buy these appliances and naked men will want you" like in the car commercials, but rather "buy these appliances and naked men will not only want you, they will cook and do your dishes."
Hot naked dude...barefoot...washing clothes in a sudsy bucket with a washboard. Hell, that'd get me into bed, and then everyone's happy. So yes, five thousand times. At least.
I guess those chibi stories with Wonder Tot and Aqualad (I think it was Aqualad) don't count? Besides, she didn't need the eventual Wondergirl sidekick patterned after her. She had the Holiday girls (and I must totally thank Moggy for my knowledge of these glorious stories), and the Holiday girls not only got to save the day often, but they were led by Etta Candy, an overweight girl who eats bonbons while taking out the bad guys. And there was Steve, cool, non-threatened by the Amazon, fighting by her side when he can. I'll be honest, even if Lois Lane hadn't been shallow caricature but rather a fully fleshed out character, I'd still rather read about the Amazon, the soldier, and Etta. Does Lois Lane have girl hunts, institutionalized bondage and kangaroos that jump to the moon?
Adolescent boys are the overwhelming primary market. It makes sense to pander to them. And it ain't like the guys are any less objectified. Now granted, it's nice that finally the audience has woken up to the fact that all of Michael Turner's girls are not only the same face/body over and over, but that a lot of girls in comics have the same body. But I don't think that's just a symptom of sexism. I think it's just a symptom of really bad artwork, and that can reach its ugly hand across all genders, creeds and colors. I honestly think that those adolescent boys would still read comics if the girls were as differentiated as the guys in terms of body/face (ie. we can tell Nightwing and Gambit apart usually), but certain artists have proved to sell comics, so the companies are going to stay within an unimaginative environment and do what they know works somewhat. That's not wholly sexism, that's mostly a perpetually stagnant business model. And it's the reason Rob Liefeld keeps getting work.
And hell, I wouldn't mind it if everything Nightwing or Gambit did looked like one of those ads that objectified the male models. Gambit's in bed on a snowy night with a lamp, a book and hot chocolate? Then no, he's not under the covers, he's lounging on a thick comforter wearing only boxers (or with a strategically placed scrap of blanket), book in one hand, the light and shadows playing over him as he lies in a pose reminiscent of a bdsm shoot. And yes, the window's curtains are open wide so that all may know his glory.
O_o Now what is Moore's harsh with bondage? Even in fics where there's no sex, I like the power play dynamics inherent in bondage and damsel/dude-in-distress. Just 'cause he doesn't like it doesn't mean it sucks. And I still don't buy the argument that bondage damages anyone's tender, vulnerable brains.
I dunno that a fraction of the hentai market is representative of manga. Which is kinda ironic that he cites them, 'cause I've found lots of fun female characters in manga. In fact, the manga is often better than the videogames coming from Japan, where the useless female is a cliche. (Dammit, Kairi, Riku shouldn't have to pull your keyblade outta his ass for you to fight!)
Then again, he wrote this in 1983, so it's unfair to expect him to know about all the stuff that's been translated and published over here now.
If anyone takes those fantasies for reality, they got a lot more problems than reading Conan the Barbarian comics. Besides, some of us like seeing barbarians reducing bad guys to dogfood with their swords. And seeing pretty people in chains. Pretty people in chains is awesome, I don't care what anyone says. Not nearly enough chains in comics in my opinion. Pretty boys in chains is just a huge plus.
But at least he's open to differing opinions. More than you can say about lotsa other people.
